To me, the worst part about this clip is that this alleged human being has almost-certainly already reproduced…
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To me, the worst part about this clip is that this alleged human being has almost-certainly already reproduced…
MOVIEBOB CENTRAL 
But Bob, can't you see the fact that I choose to identify with all the same labels as this person, defensively lash out at people who criticise her and deflect the issues this raises with insane false equivalency doesn't mean I should be tarred with the same brush?! YOU ARE SO FUCKING BIASED.
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The way that this woman just ignores questions is just infuriating. I also like how she believes that if you don't like this pastor, you should just move on and don't have to listen to it. Yet she refuses to acknowledge that gay people have a right to simply exist. It is amazing how you can say the most hateful things, but as long as you are a “man of god” it is an okay and reasonable thing to say.
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Bob, you're not a thinker, you're just a believer whose ego is so big you assume you're a thinker. You're as biased and hateful as this woman.
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Bob, the problem here is not thinkers or believers, it's homophobia and encouraging violence. THAT is the problem. The whole “Thinker/Believer” dichotomy is just an attempt to rephrase the issue. Why is the problem that she's a believer? If she was a “Believer” that violence is always wrong and that anyone who encourages it is wrong despite her opinion on homosexuality, that would be good. Also, what if she is a “thinker”, what if this all came about because she is willing to think, and justify, and reinterpret as necessary to make these opinion work.
@James: You are so tiresome. Every single time, you just post the same variation on “Bob, you're biased and hateful and a hypocrite” with no relation to what's actually said. You're not even really a troll anymore, just a noisemaker, a predictable robot doing the same thing over and over again until it just blends into vaguely trollish static.
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No, there are many kinds of people in this world. Some who think a lot, and believe a little, some who believe a lot, think a little, and some who follow just one path.
I'm sorry Bob, but your tweet just sounded so black and white. You claim yourself a thinker, so it should only be rational for you to realize that life is more complex than “you're either this, or that”.
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I think its real fucking cute how the left are so desperate for a conservative version of Jeremiah Wright that they went as far as North Carolina to find some random pastor. Keep trying Obama.
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James, I wanted to apologize for my previous comment.
I'm actually very biased towards conservatives because my ex boyfriend was conservative. He and I would have the most incredible sex 2 times a day.. nobody could satisfy me like him.
So i'm sorry for taking out my problems on you James. You keep fighting the good fight.
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Taylor: I'm a libertarian, not a conservative.
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I didn't actually write the previous comment, James did, as should be obvious.
James, you are a troll, I don't care if you insult me any more than I would if a 2 year old said I had a poopy face.
However, I'm going to tell you very clearly, don't try to insult people by implying they're homosexual. It's homophobic and hurtful to people who actually are homosexual or bisexual. Considering that someone just recently came out on this blog, it should demonstrate to you why trying to express homosexuality as a pejorative would be psychologically harmful to someone who is having difficulty reconciling their sexuality with society.
It's really loathsome behavior, and you should correct it.
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Wow. Wow. Seriously?! I mean… Ugh.. Wow. This is person is REALLY, REALLY DUMB. Does she not understand what she's saying?
I think the point where I lost it was when she said “Jews wouldn't ever be put behind electric fences”
Does she not think before she opens her mouth? The thought didn't cross her mind that this was televised nationally and internationally?
I know these kind of people exist, but it's just baffling to watch them try to justify their beliefs. She really is just a horrible person.
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Dude, I didn't imply anyone was homosexual.
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It's getting to be that golden period of the fall of a civilization where the abject stubbornness and ignorant of a large part of the population, lovingly nurtured by shysters willing to make a living hate-mongering, reaches critical mass.
Believing in something never means that you ascribe to the absolute worst case scenario. Believing Carl Marx had a point about efficiency devaluing work doesn't mean you believe in the horrors Russia put up with. However if you refuse to acknowledge the harm that can come with such beliefs then it's tantamount to assisting in those evils come to pass.
Ex: Many people claim to be shocked that a neighbor killed someone, often saying they are surprised and it was so unexpected, however more times than not the person will have a history of behavioral problems or lashing out, but their 'friends' dismiss this as 'oh that's just the way he is' or 'he's just joking'. People at large need to start being taught that admitting a fault and condoning that fault are two separate things. A faulty system, even a faulty belief can hold up if the faults are know, admitted and guarded against. At least such a system can hold up better compared to any that ignores problems and lets them fester.
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Also, @Ralphael: What do you mean “as far as North Carolina”, is North Carolina somehow an obscure state? I've always thought it was pretty well-known.
And 'the left' didn't search out this guy, he made news entirely on his own. He made a big point of his beliefs and said them loud so everyone could hear them.
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What really makes this clip hilarious is how any rational person can see how this lady is constantly trying to fill the holes in her logic by repeating the mantra “It's the gays and gayness is wrong.”
These types of people always astound me. They can never justify their horrible ideas with logic and instead keep repeating to themselves that “It's okay that I want to round up and exterminate gay people because God said it was alright!”
One can only hope that these are the last, desperate thralls of a dying state of mind in America.
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Ofcourse she's reproduced, Bob. Liberals believe in contraception, abortion, and population control.
Who do you think is having families in this country? It's not liberals. It certainly isn't you. It's us. And we outnumber you to an extent that I hope makes you lose sleep at night.
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I don't know Bob she doesn't seem to have a firm grasp on how human reproduction and human sexuality work.
Also her voice my God that voice, its like nails on a chalkboard.
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So…her central argument is:
“Well, he did say that but he didnt MEAN it, he just felt it…let me put it another way, being gay is wrong, so he is actually right, but he wouldnt actually put gays behind bars, but you know…i totally agree that that would be the right thing to do.”
Errrrr, was this supposed to be in the pastors defence? Me is are confused by her logics…
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You should probably add a link to the original Pastor Worley video, some people don't have context. 😉
Here's the link;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d2n7vSPwhSU&feature=player_embedded
now then,
I feel like I'm betraying my own values here. I want to get angry, I really do. But yeah, this video had me in stitches. I know I should know better, I know its no laughing matter, it can cause damage, people like her are the very reason for my current predicament blah blah and its a shame a person can be so, so… that.
But I just can't help but snicker. Cooper verbally destroys her argument without even trying, she continually contradicts herself every other sentence, and she seems to think homosexuals are a species unto themselves. I refuse to believe this isn't some elaborate skit masterminded by Sacha Baron Cohen.
Best part;
2:04 when Cooper lays his hand on his face, like he's just so utterly fascinated by her stupidity. I could frame that.
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James, after taking some time to cool down, I've reflected on some of my truly juvenile actions such as calling you a troll, and making it seem like you posted a comment apologizing when it was really me who tried to make it seem like you wrote that comment.
I feel that i should just come clean and admit that I suffer from DID (Discoidal personality disorder). Before some rude asshole like Raphael calls me a bi-polar bitch or something like that.
Anyways, later on I'll probably say that this comment was written by you James, but you will know that that is a lie because you know what you did and did not do.
For what its worth, i'm so sorry. Please keep fighting the good fight.
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This comment has been removed by the author.
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@Taylor I would probably never call you a bi-polar bitch. Sometimes I lose my temper when groups of people are bullied by name calling, and lash out against the bully (Bob) by calling him names. And the reason I said “as far as North Carolina” is because the left wing trolls do most of their snooping around down south, and I thought it was funny when they found nothing, they decided to look up north in desperation.
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bob,
i understand now why you temporarily ceased to allow comments on your posts….
there's some weird stuff going on here in the comments., for sure.
OT: I'm not sure this woman knows what “out of context” really means.
I will say, though, that I'm not certain this woman represents any large group. I'm sure many a conservative is face-palming watching her
PS, what does it say about me that I find the “prove you're not a robot” things on these pages a bit too hard….
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Won't even bother explaining James' bs further, just going to point out that “Discoidal personality disorder” isn't a thing. And since “Discoidal” means 'disk-shaped' I'm not even sure what that's supposed to imply.
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This is why – as an atheist – I laugh when Christians talk about ethics and morals. Any type of behaviour, no matter how loathesome, is okay if God wills it. Several serial-killers thought that way too…
And yes, I know Christians are not all like that, but it'd sure be nice if the NALTs would make their presence known every now and then. We see far too much of the nutjobs, and not enough of the rest.
Think I'll stick with being good for good's sake anyhow.
@James
If Bob wants to pick and choose what he cares about, that's his choice. He is not obligated to give equal status to both sides of an arguement… especially when doing so usually gives an equal spotlight to views so fucking ridiculous they should never see the light of day.
Also, equating Bob's choice of posts with inciting child abuse and genocide is so totally idiotic and childish, you turn yourself into a caricature.
Please be quiet and leave the discussion to those fluent in grown-up.
@Counterpoint
You're obviously part robot, like I appear to be 😦
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@Taylor:
I think she meant Dissassociative Identity Disorder, which is a real thing.
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This clip is pure comedy. You could tell Cooper wanted to facepalm so bad.
Good job, Bob. You made a blog post addressing someone's stupidity without loosely attributing it to a political party. I'm impressed, keep it up.
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@ Thorbs
The problem with Divine Command Theory is that it can't be falsified.
Is something good just because God commands it, or does God command it because it is inherently good?
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Sorry for triple posting, I just wanted to share that there are idiotic, indoctrinated “believers” on both sides of the aisle.
Case in point:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uE2M7g_IWSE
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Her timbre disagrees with me.
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Being from North Carolina myself, the people there at that church have something seriously wrong with them and just shame my state more since the stupid Amendment One passed. Problem with my state is while on it's eastern side toward the coast is far more willing to make progress in society and economics such as in the Research Triangle area and the counties pass that, the western side closer to the mountains is full of people who wish the country and state was much more like the Andy Griffith show. Granted I love that show myself, but they never got the memo that if you love nostalgia, you should just watch the shows on tv or on DVD, not drag civilization with you since you fear living in the present or don't want to live in the future.
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Although I like you Bob, I think that this whole thinker/believer philosophy is WAY too subjective and situational to become a finite rule of life.
HOWEVER, I agree with you in that this woman's statements are outrageous. I could go on about how denying a person's right to marry is morally WRONG, but we would be here all night.
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Frankly, I'm almost glad that this interview occurred on national news. Anything that makes homophobes like her look as moronic as that interview did is a net gain in my book.
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I really shouldn't find that funny. I mean, watching her trip over how cherry picked people are with the bible is old material, but she didn't even seem to have an idea straight about if the comments made were to be taken litterally or are just a fire and brimstone serman. One minute yes we should, the next no one's going to do that.
First One Million Mom's tries to protect the world from gay superheroes (over 20 years late to that party) now this. As much as I hate their bile, I'd miss the cheap lauhs.
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@biomechanical923
“The problem with Divine Command Theory is that it can't be falsified.
Is something good just because God commands it, or does God command it because it is inherently good?”
You might want to add the more important question: How would Christians know what God commands anyhow?
Literal interpretation of the Bible? Why aren't Christians stoning unruly children, and people who mow their lawn on the sabbath?
Cherry-picked version of the Bible? How do Christians know they picked the right bits? Maybe God loves homosexuals, but really does think you shouldn't touch the skin of a dead pig?
The Religious Leaders know? How? Does he speak to them? How do you know they're not mentally unbalanced, or lying for personal gain?
Typical rule of thumb is that when a premise is unfalsifiable, it's false.
Christians do much better when they ditch the divine command schtick, and just go with being good according to societies current definition of good.
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Oh look, James thinks he's actually arguing. An argument is a collective series of statements to establish a definite proposition. It isn't just contradiction. You want to argue a point, fine – but actually back your arguments up instead of just ranting about bias (which is a stupid thing to do as everybody has their own biases, and many are either not aware of them or lack the integrity to admit to them).
Back to the topic of the video, the woman's defense of the indefensible is piss weak. She really does make two wooden planks look like a computer. I almost feel sorry for her.
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Sometimes, when nobody is looking, I like to shove a buttery corn cob up my ass with one hand while aiming a nerf gun to my head with the other.
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Wow this lady reminds me of my High school religion teacher in the worst way possible.
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Also Bob, you should really just renamed your Thinker and Believer philosophy to “I really F**king hate religion.”
Consider sending your hate to a religion that's worth the trouble. Maybe that intolerant, woman-hating, gay-killing religion that still acts like we're living in the 13th century and takes up that whole Middleish-Easternish part of the world.
Oh thats right. Christians don't threaten your life. Might as well pick on them.
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I think Bob's whole thinker/believer dichotomy is a concise way about talking about a huge problem with humanity, and I'm a little amazed how people keep responding to it with “Stop bashing religion”. Bob has repeatedly said that believer does not equal religious person.
It seems pretty clear to me what he means. A person who holds things to be true because he's thought about them and finds evidence in their favor is a thinker. A person who holds things to be true for any other reason (eg. they were raised to believe it, they want it to be true) is a believer.
Thus, a Christian who, after much consideration and reasoning (including considering alternatives), thinks that following Jesus' teachings is the best way to life his/her life is a thinker. An atheist who insists God doesn't exist just because his/her parents told him is a believer.
Also, discussions like the one in the video are really pretty pointless. AC can reason with this woman all she wants, but it won't do any good, because she's a believer, she won't listen to reason. She obviously doesn't think homosexuality is wrong because she has logical arguments to support that claim, but because its considered wrong in the culture she was brought up in. We can force her into a logical discussion and then pick apart her arguments, but its not worth our time because her arguments are just things she pulls out of her ass to justify her per-existing beliefs.
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@James
You have been here for several months shouting the same shit in the same pissy voice with absolutely no attempt at anything resembling a discussion. The only thing you've convinced Bob about is that he needs to moderate the comments section better. Everybody else here mocks and hates you not because of your viewpoints, but because YOU ARE THE MOST GODDAMN FUCKING ANNOYING THING ABOUT THIS WEBSITE. Every bit of carbon dioxide coming out of your screaming lungs is a waste of energy on the part of the trees to recycle. There is bacteria of greater significance than you that could be feasting on your corpse right now and they'd also be more likely to convince Bob to do… whatever the fuck you're trying to get him to do than you ever will.
@Bob
There has to be a way to contact Google and get James IP banned from this blog. It might take half an hour or so to find it, but it's worth every second.
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@Anonymous
“…intolerant, woman-hating, gay-killing…”
Funny, I could say the same of Christianity.
“Oh thats right. Christians don't threaten your life. Might as well pick on them.”
Again, Christians do the same. Christianity has it's fair share of nutjobs, the same as Islam.
In terms of teachings, there is little difference between Islam and Christianity. The real difference tends to be Theocracy vs Democracy. When your laws are dictated by your religion, things go to shit very quickly.
Maybe Bob is worried that America will go the same way if the Christian-Right get their way and turn America into a Theocracy too?
Anyhow, fallacious arguement. His point is not lessoned by the fact there are worse things happening out there. Also, I'm sure most Christians would find your apparant delight in the thought of Bob being killed for expressing his views abhorrent.
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@Anonymous
“There has to be a way to contact Google and get James IP banned from this blog. It might take half an hour or so to find it, but it's worth every second.“
It's kind of funny that someone posting anonymously is attempting to outright silence a person who is willing to attach a name to his opinions. You can marginalize him as much as you want, but he's still more of a part of this “community” than you, sir.
also:
“Every bit of carbon dioxide coming out of your screaming lungs is a waste of energy on the part of the trees to recycle. There is bacteria of greater significance….“
That makes no sense at all. Do you think his fingers are screaming while he types or something?
@Thorbs
I do enjoy a good ethics discussion. If you think that morality is not based on divine command, then where does it come from? How do you know what is good?
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It depresses me that the comment threads on these kinds of posts so quickly dissolve into “Bob-Is-Biased-Let's-All-Talk-About-Whether-Or-Not-He's-Secretly-Trying-To-Eradicate-Religion” or something equally absurd. Yes, I agree that dividing the world into the two distinct classes of “thinker/believer” is somewhat limiting, but I don't necessarily think it's *wrong*. I think it's been made clear that “believer” doesn't necessarily mean “religious-believer”, it just refers to the kind of person who accepts dogma – of any kind – without truly analysing the information available and it's inherent meaning. But, in the end, this is one man's blog. And if that's how he chooses to view things, then, right or wrong, you've no right to tell him NOT to. If you feel differently, go start your own blog and tell people all about how this one guy has a site and how much he irritates you. I'm sure it will be very popular.
But I digress. The point here is that there are people making legitimate and repeated proposals to discriminate against a minority group in such a way that would, in their own words, see them “die out”. Irrespective of Bob's “ulterior motives” or whatever it is you're all complaining about, there is a real world issue going on here and it's hurting real people. Regardless of religious belief or political alignment, or whether or not you believe homosexuality is wrong, if you can't see something wrong with the suggestion that they be placed in some sort of concentration camp to die out is wrong, then I don't think there's any hope for you. This isn't a question of belief, it's a question of humanity. Of empathy. Of right and wrong, regardless of what belief system you draw your opinions from.
That people have taken this issue and made it into some sort of pissing contest between pseudo-intellectuals belies the seriousness of the matter at hand and makes mockery of any attempt to fix the things that are so desperately, horribly wrong with the world.
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If I didn't know any better, I would say you may have a slight bias towards the left Bob.
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Haven't been here in awhile. I think Bob was right to ban anonymous posting; the level of debate seems pretty weak and ad hominem. I mean, what can anyone really say about this woman other than that her existence is sad and grotesque? Her position is indefensible and her way of supporting it is creepy and pathetic. I think she specifically isn't so much an example for an argument against religion as she is an example of the need for more robust education and some kind of useful language for talking about the difference between religious people and idiots. Thinker/Believer seems ok, but only if you're willing to concede that some religious belief counts as thinking…which I'm not sure everyone is willing to do.
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@biomechanical923
Society determines what is good. Ethics and Morals are social constructs, they allow cooperation and collaboration. And as society grows and changes, so too do it's ethics.
Don't forget, many of the ethics that people would ascribe to Christianity were around before monotheism was even a thing.
The reason we get such a disconnect now is because the ethics discussed in the Bible are massively outdated in comparison to societal views. Religious leaders are fearful of losing their grip on the masses, so they are slow to follow society's lead. Hence we get unthinking Christians advocating things the rest of us believe to be loathsome and absurd.
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@Thorbs
Epistemologically speaking, saying something is good or bad is not the same thing as it being good or bad. If that were true then it would never be possible for a majority to be in the wrong.
You really don't believe that any part of morality is objective?
If that were true, wouldn't it be possible for anybody to justify anything as long as they tried to rationalize it?
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@ Bio
Morality is objective or there is no morality. If we say right and wrong are subjective (as opposed to being experienced subjectively) there's no way to talk meaningfully about moral progress like (for example) moving from a world that oppresses gay people to a world that doesn't.
But morality also can't be divinely inspired. If God created the rules, did He do it because the rules are right or are the rules right because He did it? If he did it because they're right, He's not really in control of what the rules ought to be, and if they're right because he made them, that means that morality is essentially arbitrary, and since we have no way of knowing for sure if a given religious authority actually has the line to God he or she claims, we're back to relativism, which is just a waste of time.
Therefore, empirical observation is the only possible basis for moral knowledge (just like it's the only possible basis for all other kinds of knowledge). Moral knowledge is simply knowledge about what does or does not cause people to be healthy, happy, etc. Most people learn pretty rapidly that a good rule of thumb for moral behavior on an individual level is to treat people with empathy – that is, imagine what it's like to be that person and try to treat them the way you imagine they'd want to be treated while still respecting your own personal interests and boundaries.
The way you can tell that this woman is an immoral person – despite her adherence to religion – is that she can't seem to do anything with the idea of homosexuals other than turn them into an all-pervasive “other” she has to destroy. The way you can tell that religion is potentially dangerous is that without religion, she would have a harder time rationalizing her batshit position. Note that none of this means religion is immoral or evil or even wrong, just that right and wrong are not so hard to figure out, they are objective, and religion can be an impediment to working that out when applied by a moron.
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Bob, I love this clip! It does more to boost gay rights than anything I've seen in a while by making the anti-gay stance look really stupid.
My personal favorite bit is when she suggests that putting all the gay men in one fence and all the gay women in another will stop them reproducing. Chris Morris couldn't make that up!
People like her should be on TV more often as it can only encourage people to revisit their own views.
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@Anonymous
“Consider sending your hate to a religion that's worth the trouble. Maybe that intolerant, woman-hating, gay-killing religion that still acts like we're living in the 13th century and takes up that whole Middleish-Easternish part of the world.
Oh thats right. Christians don't threaten your life. Might as well pick on them.”
Really? Do people actually still try to push this crap? Because I live in Oklahoma, the state which – to remind those with memories comparable to a goldfish – is the site of the SECOND-LARGEST ATTACK ON AMERICAN SOIL. An atrocity committed by. . . oh, that's right, a couple WHITE, ANTI-GOVERNMENT FUNDAMENTALISTS.
This sort of selective reading/hearing disgusts me. Are Muslims the ones bombing abortion clinics in this country? Are they dragging homosexual high-school kids behind trucks? Assaulting and forcibly shaving kids who they believe are too effeminate and MIGHT be gay?
Fundamentalists exist in all religions, and Christianity has more than its share of gay-hating, society-repressing, progress-squashing, women-persecuting mass-murdering asshats in this country, as well as many others.
As others have said, Bob's “Thinkers vs. Believers” mantra IS NOT ABOUT RELIGION. It's about how blindly people follow ANYTHING just for the sake of something to follow or to justify their own heinous actions.
It's about the route of introspection and self-assessment vs. the quick and easy path of “because someone told me so.”
And that latter attitude is something that I will fight against tooth and nail as long as I draw breath. No matter what flag or book it carries.
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